Tynan Portillo presents…featuring the best horror stories of the 19th century…welcome to The Poe Show podcast. Narrated by Tynan Portillo.

Today’s episode, the classic fairytale Hansel and Gretel by the Brothers Grimm.

Near a great forest dwelt a poor wood-cutter with his wife and his two children. The boy was called Hansel and the girl Gretel. He had little to bite and to break, and once when great dearth fell on the land, he could no longer procure even daily bread.

Now when he thought over this by night in his bed, and tossed about in his anxiety, he groaned and said to his wife, "What is to become of us. How are we to feed our poor children, when we no longer have anything even for ourselves."

"I'll tell you what, husband," answered the woman, "early to-morrow morning we will take the children out into the forest to where it is the thickest. There we will light a fire for them, and give each of them one more piece of bread, and then we will go to our work and leave them alone. They will not find the way home again, and we shall be rid of them."

"No, wife," said the man, "I will not do that. How can I bear to leave my children alone in the forest. The wild animals would soon come and tear them to pieces."

"O' you fool," said she, "then we must all four die of hunger, you may as well plane the planks for our coffins," and she left him no peace until he consented.

"But I feel very sorry for the poor children, all the same," said the man. The two children had also not been able to sleep for hunger, and had heard what their step-mother had said to their father.

Gretel wept bitter tears, and said to Hansel, "now all is over with us."

"Be quiet," Gretel, said Hansel, "do not distress yourself, I will soon find a way to help us."

And when the old folks had fallen asleep, he got up, put on his little coat, opened the door below, and crept outside. The moon shone brightly, and the white pebbles which lay in front of the house glittered like real silver pennies. Hansel stooped and stuffed the little pocket of his coat with as many as he could get in. Then he went back and said to Gretel, "Be comforted, dear little sister, and sleep in peace, God will not forsake us," and he lay down again in his bed.

When day dawned, but before the sun had risen, the woman came and awoke the two children, saying get up, you sluggards. We are going into the forest to fetch wood. She gave each a little piece of bread, and said, "There is something for your dinner, but do not eat it up before then, for you will get nothing else."

Gretel took the bread under her apron, as Hansel had the pebbles in his pocket. Then they all set out together on the way to the forest. When they had walked a short time, Hansel stood still and peeped back at the house, and did so again and again.

His father said, "Hansel, what are you looking at there and staying behind for. Pay attention, and do not forget how to use your legs."

"Ah, father," said Hansel, "I am looking at my little white cat, which is sitting up on the roof, and wants to say good-bye to me."

The wife said, "Fool, that is not your little cat, that is the morning sun which is shining on the chimneys." Hansel, however, had not been looking back at the cat, but had been constantly throwing one of the white pebble-stones out of his pocket on the road.

When they had reached the middle of the forest, the father said, "Now, children, pile up some wood, and I will light a fire that you may not be cold." Hansel and Gretel gathered brushwood together, as high as a little hill.

The brushwood was lighted, and when the flames were burning very high, the woman said, "Now, children, lay yourselves down by the fire and rest, we will go into the forest and cut some wood. When we have done, we will come back and fetch you away".

Hansel and Gretel sat by the fire, and when noon came, each ate a little piece of bread, and as they heard the strokes of the wood-axe they believed that their father was near. It was not the axe, however, but a branch which he had fastened to a withered tree which the wind was blowing backwards and forwards. And as they had been sitting such a long time, their eyes closed with fatigue, and they fell fast asleep. When at last they awoke, it was already dark night.

Gretel began to cry and said, "How are we to get out of the forest now."

But Hansel comforted her and said, "Just wait a little, until the moon has risen, and then we will soon find the way." And when the full moon had risen, Hansel took his little sister by the hand, and followed the pebbles which shone like newly-coined silver pieces, and showed them the way.

They walked the whole night long, and by break of day came once more to their father's house. They knocked at the door, and when the woman opened it and saw that it was Hansel and Gretel, she said, "You naughty children, why have you slept so long in the forest. We thought you were never coming back at all." The father, however, rejoiced, for it had cut him to the heart to leave them behind alone.

Not long afterwards, there was once more great dearth throughout the land, and the children heard their mother saying at night to their father, "Everything is eaten again, we have one half loaf left, and that is the end. The children must go, we will take them farther into the wood, so that they will not find their way out again. There is no other means of saving ourselves." The man's heart was heavy, and he thought, it would be better for you to share the last mouthful with your children.

The woman, however, would listen to nothing that he had to say, but scolded and reproached him. He who says a must say b, likewise, and as he had yielded the first time, he had to do so a second time also.

The children, however, were still awake and had heard the conversation. When the old folks were asleep, Hansel again got up, and wanted to go out and pick up pebbles as he had done before, but the woman had locked the door, and Hansel could not get out. Nevertheless he comforted his little sister, and said, "Do not cry, Gretel, go to sleep quietly, the good God will help us." <

Early in the morning came the woman, and took the children out of their beds. Their piece of bread was given to them, but it was still smaller than the time before. On the way into the forest Hansel crumbled his in his pocket, and often stood still and threw a morsel on the ground. "Hansel, why do you stop and look round, said the father, "go on."

"I am looking back at my little pigeon which is sitting on the roof, and wants to say good-bye to me," answered Hansel.

"Fool," said the woman, "that is not your little pigeon, that is the morning sun that is shining on the chimney." Hansel, however, little by little, threw all the crumbs on the path.

The woman led the children still deeper into the forest, where they had never in their lives been before. Then a great fire was again made, and the mother said, "Just sit there, you children, and when you are tired you may sleep a little. We are going into the forest to cut wood, and in the evening when we are done, we will come and fetch you away." When it was noon, Gretel shared her piece of bread with Hansel, who had scattered his by the way. Then they fell asleep and evening passed, but no one came to the poor children.

They did not awake until it was dark night, and Hansel comforted his little sister and said, "Just wait, Gretel, until the moon rises, and then we shall see the crumbs of bread which I have strewn about, they will show us our way home again." When the moon came they set out, but they found no crumbs, for the many thousands of birds which fly about in the woods and fields had picked them all up.

Hansel said to Gretel, "We shall soon find the way," but they did not find it. They walked the whole night and all the next day too from morning till evening, but they did not get out of the forest, and were very hungry, for they had nothing to eat but two or three berries, which grew on the ground. And as they were so weary that their legs would carry them no longer, they lay down beneath a tree and fell asleep.

It was now three mornings since they had left their father's house. They began to walk again, but they always came deeper into the forest, and if help did not come soon, they must die of hunger and weariness. When it was mid-day, they saw a beautiful snow-white bird sitting on a bough, which sang so delightfully that they stood still and listened to it. And when its song was over, it spread its wings and flew away before them, and they followed it until they reached a little house, on the roof of which it alighted. And when they approached the little house they saw that it was built of bread and covered with cakes, but that the windows were of clear sugar.

"We will set to work on that," said Hansel, "and have a good meal. I will eat a bit of the roof, and you Gretel, can eat some of the window, it will taste sweet." Hansel reached up above, and broke off a little of the roof to try how it tasted, and Gretel leant against the window and nibbled at the panes.

Then a soft voice cried from the parlor -

"Nibble, nibble, gnaw
Who is nibbling at my little house."

The children answered -

"The wind, the wind,
The heaven-born wind," and went on eating without disturbing themselves.

Hansel, who liked the taste of the roof, tore down a great piece of it, and Gretel pushed out the whole of one round window-pane, sat down, and enjoyed herself with it. Suddenly the door opened, and a woman as old as the hills, who supported herself on crutches, came creeping out. Hansel and Gretel were so terribly frightened that they let fall what they had in their hands.

The old woman, however, nodded her head, and said, "Oh, you dear children, who has brought you here. Do come in, and stay with me. No harm shall happen to you." She took them both by the hand, and led them into her little house. Then good food was set before them, milk and pancakes, with sugar, apples, and nuts. Afterwards two pretty little beds were covered with clean white linen, and Hansel and Gretel lay down in them, and thought they were in heaven.

The old woman had only pretended to be so kind. She was in reality a wicked witch, who lay in wait for children, and had only built the little house of bread in order to entice them there. When a child fell into her power, she killed it, cooked and ate it, and that was a feast day with her. Witches have red eyes, and cannot see far, but they have a keen scent like the beasts, and are aware when human beings draw near.

When Hansel and Gretel came into her neighborhood, she laughed with malice, and said mockingly, "I have them, they shall not escape me again."

Early in the morning before the children were awake, she was already up, and when she saw both of them sleeping and looking so pretty, with their plump and rosy cheeks, she muttered to herself, "That will be a dainty mouthful." Then she seized Hansel with her shrivelled hand, carried him into a little stable, and locked him in behind a grated door. Scream as he might, it would not help him.

Then she went to Gretel, shook her till she awoke, and cried, "Get up, lazy thing, fetch some water, and cook something good for your brother, he is in the stable outside, and is to be made fat. When he is fat, I will eat him." Gretel began to weep bitterly, but it was all in vain, for she was forced to do what the wicked witch commanded.

And now the best food was cooked for poor Hansel, but Gretel got nothing but crab-shells.

Every morning the woman crept to the little stable, and cried, "Hansel, stretch out your finger that I may feel if you will soon be fat." Hansel, however, stretched out a little bone to her, and the old woman, who had dim eyes, could not see it, and thought it was Hansel's finger, and was astonished that there was no way of fattening him. When four weeks had gone by, and Hansel still remained thin, she was seized with impatience and would not wait any longer.

"Now, then, Gretel," she cried to the girl, "stir yourself, and bring some water. Let Hansel be fat or lean, to-morrow I will kill him, and cook him."

Ah, how the poor little sister did lament when she had to fetch the water, and how her tears did flow down her cheeks. "Dear God, do help us, she cried. If the wild beasts in the forest had but devoured us, we should at any rate have died together."

"Just keep your noise to yourself," said the old woman, "it won't help you at all."

Early in the morning, Gretel had to go out and hang up the cauldron with the water, and light the fire. "We will bake first," said the old woman, "I have already heated the oven, and kneaded the dough."

She pushed poor Gretel out to the oven, from which flames of fire were already darting. "Creep in," said the witch, "and see if it properly heated, so that we can put the bread in." And once Gretel was inside, she intended to shut the oven and let her bake in it, and then she would eat her, too.

But Gretel saw what she had in mind, and said, "I do not know how I am to do it. How do I get in."

"Silly goose," said the old woman, "the door is big enough. Just look, I can get in myself," and she crept up and thrust her head into the oven. Then Gretel gave her a push that drove her far into it, and shut the iron door, and fastened the bolt. Oh. Then she began to howl quite horribly, but Gretel ran away, and the godless witch was miserably burnt to death.

Gretel, however, ran like lightning to Hansel, opened his little stable, and cried, "Hansel, we are saved. The old witch is dead."

Then Hansel sprang like a bird from its cage when the door is opened. How they did rejoice and embrace each other, and dance about and kiss each other. And as they had no longer any need to fear her, they went into the witch's house, and in every corner there stood chests full of pearls and jewels.

"These are far better than pebbles," said Hansel, and thrust into his pockets whatever could be got in.

And Gretel said, "I, too, will take something home with me,” and filled her pinafore full.

"But now we must be off," said Hansel, "that we may get out of the witch's forest."

When they had walked for two hours, they came to a great body of water.

"We cannot cross," said Hansel, "I see no foot-plank, and no bridge."

"And there is also no ferry,” answered Gretel, “but a white duck is swimming there. If I ask her, she will help us over.” Then she cried -

"Little duck, little duck, dost thou see,
Hansel and Gretel are waiting for thee.
There's never a plank, or bridge in sight,
take us across on thy back so white."

The duck came to them, and Hansel seated himself on its back, and told his sister to sit by him. "No," replied Gretel, "that will be too heavy for the little duck. She shall take us across, one after the other."

The good little duck did so, and when they were once safely across and had walked for a short time, the forest seemed to be more and more familiar to them, and at length they saw from afar their father's house. Then they began to run, rushed into the parlor, and threw themselves round their father's neck. The man had not known one happy hour since he had left the children in the forest. The woman, however, was dead. Gretel emptied her pinafore until pearls and precious stones ran about the room, and Hansel threw one handful after another out of his pocket to add to them. Then all anxiety was at an end, and they lived together in perfect happiness.

My tale is done, there runs a mouse, whosoever catches it, may make himself a big fur cap out of it.

Hello from The Poe Show, as always, I’m your host Tynan Portillo! If you enjoyed listening to this episode, then give this podcast a good rating and share it with someone you know who loves audiobooks! If you have any suggestions for future classic stories to feature on the podcast, you can text the show directly and immediately. Just open this episode and look for the link that says “Send us a text message.” Your anonymous message will go directly to the show. Or, of course, you can email poeshowpod@gmail.com. In fact, we have a message that I’d like to answer right now!

The message says, “Hi! I love your podcast and noticed you said that you make new music for each episode. How do you manage that?”

Well, thank you very much for listening! Uh, I honestly don’t really know hahaha. I have some things I return to, but I have about 4 years worth of piano lessons, which I took on and off over like 8 years. Usually I’ll read the story and take inventory of how it makes me feel while I’m reading it. Where does the tension rise, where do I hear a pause, how does this section make me feel? Then I try to replicate that in the sound. For Hansel and Gretel I wanted a sound that felt like a child’s lullaby but still felt creepy (which is why I included that one bit that sounded like this - SOUND). Funny thing, the music I started making for this turned out to be the music I used for The Fall of the House of Usher.

When I was writing the music for, uh, The Pit and the Pendulum I knew that there were moments when the tension rose and then fell, and throughout the story was the looming presence of death. So I created a few musical identities that could replicate that feeling of growing tension, but then be eased into the dread of the more quiet sections. And there’s some stuff that I use to make music composition…uh, easier.

Like, for any Lovecraft story, I always include the Devil’s tritone - which is any 2 notes that are 3 whole steps apart - to give you the feeling that something is unnatural. And it sounds like this:

Or for Edgar Allan Poe’s stories, I usually include the Dies Irae to represent death:

And for Charlotte Perkins Gilman stories, I like to reuse a tune that I made a LONG time ago when I was a kid, but I think it speaks to the suffering and meaning of her stories:

It just helps the stories tie together in their own universes, and makes things easier for me. And to keep it fresh, I try to write each new song in a different key. So thank you so much for your question! If any of you have questions about…literally anything, just send them my way!

Now, Hansel and Gretel is only one of the famous German folk tales retold and collected by the Brothers Grimm and published in 1812. Its alternative title at the time was “Little Step Brother and Little Step Sister.” It’s been adapted into possibly hundreds of film and theatrical productions. And if you really want a sweet treat, I want you to look up on YouTube “Tim Burton’s Hansel and Gretel” from 1982. It’s a short film which Tim Burton designed and directed for The Disney Channel and it is…everything.

It’s so creepy and strange in a way that only Tim Burton can master! If you like The Nightmare Before Christmas then you’ll love his Hansel and Gretel. I even took inspiration from Michael Yama, the actor who played the evil stepmother and witch, to create the voice for both of those characters in this episode. Interesting fact, Burton insisted on having an all East-Asian cast for the production and took influences from Japanese cinema like Godzilla because he was obsessed with the culture at the time. And let me just say…there’s a part with a gingerbread man forcing someone to eat him which gave me nightmares.

Scholars have debated on the origin of Hansel & Gretel, some have speculated the brothers heard of the story in 1809. But its true source actually dates back to the Late Middle Ages and even draws upon Greek mythology - the story of a Minotaur inside a labyrinth could have inspired the idea of the children leaving breadcrumbs to get out of the woods. It was also a sadly common practice of medieval Europe to abandon unwanted children in the forest or in front of churches; this tale could have served as commentary upon child abuse and abandonment. A house made of candy seems to be referenced in a 14th century manuscript about the Land of Cockayne. And that’s COCKAYNE, a medieval mythical land of pleasure. Literary use of a land like this was usually a way to mock Christian ideas of abstinence or asceticism.

So in this story we have two protagonists: Hansel and his younger sister Gretel, whose stepmother doesn’t seem to like them very much. In fact, there’s strong evidence that their stepmother is the witch in the story. I loved that line, “I have them, and they shall not escape me again.” When I read that, I was like, “Again? Freaking again?” That seems like she meant they would not get out of the woods and into the care of their father again.

Now here’s a question: why is there always an evil stepmother? And why do stepmothers get such a bad rap?

Even in Old English, the “step” in stepmother, which came from “steop” was a prefix that meant being deprived of a relative. But in the time that this fairytale would have been told, death in childbirth was common which would leave the child in the care of their father, then the father would remarry. So these tales served as warnings towards stepmothers to treat their step children right. But there’s also an argument made that these stories served as therapeutic outlets for maternal rage.

Why would they have rage? Well, you think about the standards for marriage back then…plenty of women being married were actually young girls. It was possible, could even be probable, that the stepmother would be the same age as her stepdaughter. Authority then goes out the window and the two girls might have to compete for the attention of the father/husband.

I think the trope of the evil stepmother is also a quick way to make an easy villain for the story. The story of Cinderella better justifies the isolation and mistreatment of Cinderella with an evil stepmother who loves her other biological children more than Cinderella. There’s already an inherent separation between the characters. It’s actually a sad fact that stepchildren do receive more neglect or abuse than biological children, but that is more often tied to the relationship with the stepfathers instead. Honestly, I think the best version of the Cinderella story is in the movie “Ever After” with Drew Barrymore and Anjelica Houston; it’s one of my favorites.

So our evil stepmother schemes to leave the children alone in the woods, convincing their father that they’ll be better off somehow. I really don’t know why he goes along with this at all, he really seems like a weak character. But if he had a different disposition, then the story wouldn’t have happened. The parents lead their children out to the woods, but Hansel has left stones behind them that glow in the moonlight, and are able to trace their steps back to their home.

This actually reminds me of a cruise I took with my wife to Cozumel, Mexico. We learned that early Mesoamerican people, like the Aztecs and Incas (my ancestors actually) would use white sand to pave paths to their temples because when the moonlight reflected off the sand it would ward off panthers and other predatory animals, keeping priestesses safe as they made their travels between temples or their homes. Interesting that Hansel has a similar use with the stones, paving the way home.

The evil stepmother then wants to take them into the woods again, and locks the door so Hansel can’t grab the stones from outside. So Hansel leaves some bread crumbs as they walk into the woods again, but those are eaten up by the many birds of the forest. The children were then “lost in the woods” and followed a white bird to the witch’s house made of sweets. Literary symbolism says that white birds represent good fortune, but I can’t tell if the bird used here is supposed to be a contradiction to that usual purpose - akin to how Mary Shelley had Frankenstein destroy the female monster he was crafting for his male monster, contradicting what happens in the Bible with God creating man and woman - or if it’s supposed to provide hope, which they find in a house made of confectionary. The witch, seeming to be a nice old woman, lures them in with proper food and warm beds. But she soon shows her true colors and imprisons Hansel in order to fatten him up and eat him!

It was heartwrenching when I read that part where Gretel is praying to God for help and she says at least if they were eaten by wild animals, they would have died together. I just, that’s a heavy line to come from a young girl.

But then it’s Gretel’s turn to outsmart the witch! The witch tells Gretel to crawl into the oven so she can see if it’s hot enough to put the bread in! How…stupid do you think children are? Like, did that trick work with children before? Or has she been doing this for so long that the witch is just getting sloppy? We aren’t told how old Hansel and Gretel are but I doubt that they’re young enough to be that dumb.

Really it’s the witch that’s the dumb one, cause she climbs into the oven to show Gretel how to do it! If you really wanted to eat her, why not just shove her into the oven??

So then Gretel frees Hansel, they raid the witch’s house and grab a bunch of treasure, they run away, they meet a duck that helps them cross a river, and they finally make it back to their father’s house and live happily till the end of their days. On a side note, their stepmother died! Horray!

Now whats the message of Hansel and Gretel? I’ve heard before that it’s supposed to show children not to talk to strangers and to help children avoid being kidnapped. That could very well be. I think it also shows one of those classic messages of good triumphing over evil.

On that note, Hansel and Gretel shows that actions have consequences. Hansel and Gretel, remaining faithful, smart and righteous, end up back in the care of their loving father with more treasures than they can carry while the evil witch is dead and robbed. But it’s a bit interesting to think about how long consequences take to have any reapable benefits. The witch had a mountain of chests full of pearls and jewels from her previous victims; who knows how many children and families she had terrorized before finally meeting justice? I actually just got done rewatching Mike Flanagan’s The Fall of the House of Usher on Netflix, and one of the great things I love about that show is it’s basically just terrible people dying in horrifying ways, reaping the consequences of their actions.

But even The Fall of the House of Usher shows that consequences can be a long time coming. Of course, I think we’d all like the consequences of evil actions to be visited upon the heads of our wrongdoers sooner rather than later, but life doesn’t seem to operate that way. The good and bad seem to just equal out over time, some people get theirs more at the start, others later, and it’s hard to predict. Still, religions like Buddhism and Hinduism believe in karma: that what you do will have consequences in your life sometime later. In Christianity the reassurance that the meek will inherit the Earth, and Jesus Christ saying that his kingdom is not of this world, further show that consequences can be a long time coming, but still they inevitably have to be paid.

Do you agree with that? I’d like to agree with that generally, it makes me feel good to think that people who do good things have good things happen to them. But as we all realistically know, good and bad things happen to everyone no matter how moral they are. And sometimes we have systems or organizations that permit evil to happen seemingly without consequence. Therefore, stories like this should serve as an inspiration for us and future generations, as they did when they were first written, so that our children and their children, reject acquiescence and silent acceptance of injustice - so that they outsmart the evil people of the world, burn them in their own ovens and take back the treasures which rightfully belong to those who have been robbed.

The purpose of using children for our protagonists instead of, say, a knight in shining armor, further reflects the ability that children have to make good decisions and be trusted with responsibility. In essence, this story shows Hansel and Gretel a horror of the world that forces them to grow up. Instead of becoming Peter Pan and refusing to grow up, refusing to accept a very adult responsibility like saving your own life, they choose to grow up, to use their wits to outsmart the witch and survive. Even before they met the witch, they had to make some adult decisions like walking through the forest to hopefully find sanctuary.

Also, I never knew that in the original story there was a white duck that carried Hansel and Gretel across a river, it really seemed to come out of nowhere. But the symbolic meaning of the environment and the duck strongly imply a return to innocence and a strong family. White ducks typically represent the values of love, family and good fortune; meanwhile water in almost any literary sense is used as a form of baptism for the characters, which implies that Hansel and Gretel are being cleansed of the horrible experience they’ve endured and can now start anew.

I’m glad Hansel and Gretel get a happy ending, and how the message of the story is to be a good person who cares about others, to incorporate teamwork and thinking ahead to get out of danger, and how it warns against the kind of trauma that can come from abandoning children. That can even happen within a household, right? Plenty of older siblings feel that their problems don’t matter as much to their parents as the younger siblings. So the older sibling learns to bury their problems and only care for others, which can also lead to resentment, anger and fear.

It’s no wonder why Hansel and Gretel is a classic, and there’s no wonder in my mind why it’ll continue to be so for years to come.

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Poe Show. If you liked it then share it, subscribe to the podcast and leave a good rating so more people can listen too. Remember, you can message The Poe Show anonymously anytime by clicking that “Send us a text message” link, or email poeshowpod@gmail.com and I’d love to answer any questions you may have. Or if you’d like to hear any stories on this podcast, let me know that too! Follow this podcast on Instagram and Threads @thepoeshowpodcast, on TikTok (while it’s still around) @poeshowpodcast and on YouTube @ThePoeShow. All links to the socials can be found in the description of this episode.

Thanks again for listening, and you’ll hear from me again on the next episode of The Poe Show.